I'm setting up a new PC (Windows XP) Computer. Can someone recommend the 'best quality' sounding PCI soundcard which also includes high quality midi voices, for computer playback of GM/GS & XG midi files? Currently, the GM instrument voices on my PC's 'built into the motherboard' soundcard sounds really cheesy. I realize that I can send midi file playback out to my Keyboard (Tyros) or to another remote sound module, but would prefer the convenience of being able to play them thru the computer alone. Am I asking too much? Are there any PCI midi soundcards avilable which match or approach the sound quality of a dedicated GM/GS & XG midi sound module? Recommendations please. Thanks.

Scott

Hi,

I dont know exactly how much you are wanting to spend. so ill give you a large price arrange of products.

First is one of the cheapest, yet highest reccomended PCI board I know. Its the E-mu 0404. For only 100 bucks it has 24bit recording and ships with ships with ASIO 2.0 and WDM drivers, Steinberg Cubasis, Steinberg WaveLab Lite, SFX Machine LT, and a trial version of Minnetonka's diskWelder BRONZE. Which is a fantastic deal. I dont know exactly how good the samples are,maybe somebody else will know.

For 500 bucks the E-mu 1820M is the master level recording PCI, it is more exspensive at 500 bucks, but its a three piece kit with 2 PCI and a desktop box.

A good middle man is the E-mu EmulatorX, 2 piece PCI, 2gb of sounds. Bundled software and so on. for 300 bucks its a powerful package.

Each product i listed is on musiciansfriend with a large discription of each id reccomend checking them all out.

Phil


[This message has been edited by Pennywizz6 (edited 03-27-2005).]

Scotty,

I used to use a Roland Sound Canvas SCC-1. I still have it, but it uses the ISA bus instead of PCI bus. The sound engine on that card was out of this world. It had effects and Top Notch GM instruments.

Can you use this card?

Al

It is hard to find HQ soundbanks on soundcards. Several years ago I owned a Terratec EWS64XL (500$ card!) but the quality was very poor compared to today keyboards / arrangers.

I understand in the first place you are looking for a GM-soundmachine.... not a recording device ?

My neighbour just purchased a creative Audigy SB Live Platinum! card (150$) .... it does not impress me at all.

What about a FM sound module???
Okay, if you're working with sound/audio cards then attend to the ASIOdirect standard. The standard that Phil recommended seems to be the newest once.
Which sequencing software do you use? IMHO Cubase is a good choice.
------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

[This message has been edited by Sheriff (edited 03-27-2005).]

Hi Phil, thanks for your suggestions. I forgot to mention that I ALREADY own a fairly decent quality (for recording) dedicated to 'digital audio' only soundcard (M-Audio Delta 66), but this card doesn't include any midi voices whatsoever.

I'm specifically looking for a PCI type card to provide high quality sounding in the computer "GM/GS" & "XG" voices for midi file playback. My past experience has been that the midi voices included on PCI soundcards sound unimpressive at best, and NO MATCH to the quality of midi playback out to my Yamaha Tyros, but was wondering if somehow MIDI soundcard technology may have improved in recent years (months?) to more closely approach the quality of the GM/GS & XG sounds included in a dedicated sound module or top of the line keyboard.



Al, thanks for the offer, but I'm specifically looking for a PCI type 'midi voice' card and one which INCLUDES XG Voices as well.



Roel, I have to admit I too was not very impressed with the midi sound coming from the Audigy SB Live! Your reply seems to confirm my worst suspicion , that midi sound quality from computer soundcards haven't improved yet to the level of a dedicated high quality GM/XG external sound module or kb. I'm a little surprised because I would think that the technology is available to accomplish this. That being the case, I wonder which CURRENT computer 'midi soundcard' which INCLUDES both GM/GS & XG sounds, is the BEST out there now.



Sheriff, were you by any chance referring to FM radio?! Just kidding.



I use Cakewalk Sonar with a M-Audio Delta66 soundcard which includes support for ASIO, so was specifically looking for a dedicated to 'GM/XG midi voices' only card as the Delta66 already provides decent digital audio converters.

Scott

If you have the space, I would buy a used Roland G 800 . You have them for the price of the emu soundcard.
Also very handy as a midi keyboard in case you want to record in realtime in Sonar.
(and I can send you an ins file for G series
)

Most soundcards with synth banks are consumer cards.
I don't know about the expensive emu card mentionned, but all soundblasters have emu chips.

XG is yamaha only as far as I know.

Alternative is ofcourse the software route.

Fred

Scott, you already use Sonar[with VST support]..Get Edirol/Roland Hyper Canvas[soft synth wavetable]..Your sequences will never sound better than this..

Scott,
I don't think such a animal exists.
I know there were some low quality sound
cards that had XG sounds(see the OMB site),
but for "high quality", I think you are going to have to either go with a Creative card where you can load soundfonts, or use
a high quality sound card like your delta44
with a software soundfont player or sampler.
I used to own a Roland RAP-10 that had a
GM/GS sample set, but the newest generation
of cards don't have ROM wavetables anymore.
If anyone knows of any, please let us know.



[This message has been edited by Vquestor (edited 03-27-2005).]

I pretty much gave up on a similar XG quest sometime ago. I migrated all my midi files from GM to XG years ago and then I searched for ways to play those files on my computer(s) in a high-quality manner. It was all in vain - Yamaha keeps making products then disowning them, like the SW1000XG soundcard which reportedly had a good XG synth... discontinued. Then there was the Yamaha MU-128, not a soundcard but Yamaha's most powerful XG sound module... discontinued. Then I used the XG softsynth, the S-YXG50 & 100... discontinued.

Lately I've had to examine why I would want XG capability in a computer at all. GM/GS is still going strong but it's so limited.

My last hold on XG was using the Yamaha S-YXG50 on a laptop as a SMF player for backing when playing a piano... I did away with that program and now use the laptop to play MP3 files of my 9000 Pro playing my SMF's, which sounds much better.

In the end, as you know, I bought a duplicate 9000 Pro as a permanent part of my studio. I use it a lot. Maybe you should think about a used Tyros as a backup to your stage Tyros and as a sound module for your home computer.

For interest and future exploration, I bought Sonic Refills' Omnisoundz GM for Reason's NN-XT to allow Reason to play GM files in a reasonably good manner.

Scott,
theoretically the Yamaha SW1000XG card can provide what you need. you can buy one used fairly cheap, the card had some raving reviews and won "best card" or something for 4-5 years in a row. Has 20 MB of wave ROM, built in effects, doesn't take processor time, blah blah. If you search on the net you'll find many reviews.
But as Pro said, it is obsolete, and there is a chance it may not work with your particular Pc chipset. take a look at www.xgfactory.com for info. It is a $100 bet.
Another way would be Hypercanvas. sounds ok for me, and check the posts by Frank Rosenthal, rikkisbears and Starkeeper and download Another XG soundfont. they say it sounds good enough for styles and you can use it on a regular Creative card.

Hi Scott
I did an extensive search a while back for a midi playback card to compare with my keyboard,but with my laptop. Alec told me to get Echo. It is excellent. Look under the midi column for more. http://www.cdrecordingsoftware.com/card_compare.html

Bernie

Yes! The mainboard's chip set has to have a full PCI support so that ASIOdirect can work in a right way. I know that the VIA's chip set doesn't work correct for this choice.

Another point which conquers my mind is: Why do some people think that a sound/audio card for 500 bucks could sound like a super-nova-hyper synth for 5000 bucks?
I think there's absolutely no way for it.
For example: My 'old' Kurzweil K2000RS costed 10.000 DM in the year 1994. My PC costed 400 Euro (about 800 DM) in 2004. I know there is no chance for my PC to approximately sound like my K2000 because of the high quality AD/DA-converters.

But there is a chance that you know this all about and I'm telling you nothing new...

------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

I don't think there are many soundcards these days that have a great GM/XG soundset built-in, I would look at softsynths and soundfonts instead.
If you really want top-notch GM sounds you could try the Edirol SD-80 soundmodule...

Greetz ,
Marcel

[This message has been edited by Wazza (edited 03-28-2005).]

Thanks to EVERYONE who responded for your informative responses. Lot's of interesting choices for sure. The Yamaha SW1000XG card sounds like the best XG soundcard option, but because it's not longer sold or supported by Yamaha, I'm not very enthusiastic about that option. It appears that the only 1/2 decent sounding internal computer midi sound source only option may be with a software synth or sound fonts, but I concerned over how much CPU memory sources this takes up. I assume that with a 3 Gigahertz CPU (Windows XP) and 1 GB RAM this should'nt be an issue, right? If not , I guess it's time to explore the "Software Synth" and/or "SoundFont Libraries" options available. I need something that includes BOTH GM/GS & XG midi sound tables.

Currently most of my computer played back midi file istrument voices sound really cheesy, so I primarily need something (soundsynth, soundfont, or midi sound card) to more accurately (realistically) hear, and more conveniently playback (thru my computer alone) website accessed & internet downloaded GM/XG midi files.


Scott

If you purchase a SoundBlaster or Audigy soundcard, then soundfonts can be loaded onto the soundcard itself.
Starkeeper

Okay!
1. Cakewalk should be good enough and it is used in several studios too.
2. Your audio card provides ASIOdirect.
3. Your PC doesn't use VIA's chip set.
4. Your PC is running on 3 GHz with 1 GB RAM

I think you have all the powerful things you need to use virtual soundfonts, vst and so on. Don't use your PC for any other thing than music and you will be the king!

------------------
Greetings from Frankfurt (Germany),
Sheriff ;-)

I saw a reference here to Sound Blaster and Audigy.

Just so everyone is made aware, contrary to how this company is misleading the public, if recording and editing at 2496 is important to you, NONE of their products do this, regardless of what they claim.

If anyone is interested in what the audio techs of the world are saying about this, let me know and I'll find the posts on this tale.

Scott Langholff

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 03-28-2005).]

Scott,
You can start by doing a free test.
Try the free standalone sfz soundfont player
with the free Another XG soundfont.
Make sure you configure sfz to ASIO.
Also have MidiYoke installed on your computer
to connect sfz to other programs like
VanBasco. The above setup should use up less CPU than running Cakewalk hosting sfz.
Playing XG midi files is going to be tricky part.
If all your midi files were in GM/GS format,
running VSTHost(http://www.hermannseib.com/english/vsthost.htm)
hosting HQ Hypercanvas would
be a very decent quality playback setup(I have tested this setup MidiYoked to VanBasco and it works great)It would probably also use less CPU than Cakewalk hosting Hypercanvas.

[This message has been edited by Vquestor (edited 03-28-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Vquestor (edited 03-28-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Vquestor (edited 03-28-2005).]

I am using VanBasco as my player,with Midiyoke..My host program is Forte[Brainspawn], and my wavetable[soft synth] is Hyper Canvas..Asio4all is my driver.

All this works well with my Conexant sound card[came with the Compaq 2570US laptop].

I also have my PCMCIA sound card, Digigram VXpocket[a high quality card], but so far , I have not needed it with this laptop..
I use VXpocket with my "old" CTX laptop..

Alluding to Scott L's post, I also have Audigy on my main pc with z2200's. The sound is almost as good as my Echo on my LT.. Plus the surround sound and good recording quality.

I will bring my laptop to the sz Jam.

Bernie

Hi Bernie

I wouldn't doubt that your Audigy sounds good. However, there has been a class action lawsuit againt Creative Labs. Looks like they "kind of" owe you $62 because of false advertising.
http://www.theinquirer.net/
http://www.audiocardsettlement.com/

Scott Langholff

[This message has been edited by Scott Langholff (edited 03-29-2005).]

To Scott L
Very interesting,but 2.2 states that the settlement is 25% credit on any Creative product up to $62. In my case,I don't depend on the Audigy for recording,and neither would Scott Yee.

Thanks for the heads up
Bernie

I would still take a look at the SW1000XG. One just went for $180 on ebay. And IMNO it kicks the SB Audigy butt. Now if you want some REAL nice sounds go with a SB or any card that supports soundfonts. Then get AnotherGS and add the patch to make it AnotherXG (it's only 32mb) then add the sounds YOU like to it using the E-Mu Librarian, or Vienna. That is what I have done, and I am extremely happy with it. Just a thought.

PS-I us to have the SW1000XG and the Roland SCC1 both in the same system (p3 700, 512) and it was a nice selection of sounds that didn't eat the CPU for lunch.....

have to say forget the swg card..way TOO much latency, though not bad sounds...i've got to say i believe the best sounds for general smf playback come from the roland GS modules, which btw also sound decent in just the gm format as well. XG sounds overall,imho, are thin and not very exciting..if you are into the virtual instruments scott why not look at the Roland VSC from edirol..it comes bundled with things like home studio and such but is available as a standalone, I have a copy here somewhere which i could email you if you like..aprt from that the Creative Audigy 2 Pro has some really good and useabel "soundfonts"..if you want cheap and very good (particularly on realistic instrument sounds lol apart from guitars!!)look on Ebay for either SC 88, SC88 Pro or SC8850 all Roland canvases and most go for peanuts these days, but have full midi specs, efx, etc etc

Okay. I'm trying to get decent stuff myself.

The major problem with Creative cards, is tha,t as far as I know, they STILL don't sup[port midi portmenteau at all like eevery single CS compliant synth (and XG one) is supposed to. this alone makes them unsuitable for serious MIDI.

GS stuff requires a Sound CAnvass. There is no substiutute. there is no decent sound cnavass on a pc card anymrore, so you are stuck with softsynths. YOu want GS midi? get an external unit. PERIOD.

XG the situation isn't much better. On the plus side, XG units have a GS compatible mode when you send a GS resert sysex.

ANyway, the softsynths are your best bet. The famous DS-XG chipset is not very 200/XP friendly. ALso they BOTTCHED some things when they made the chipset! The softsynth, as well as the sw60xg/db50xg gets it right. Play the XG version of CHildren floating around on the net adnd you will see how the hardware synths on those pci chipsets get it WRONG.

I've obtained an XP compatible SY50XG and it is sweet. You aren't gonna fidn anything else.

I really wish someone would make a XG synth with soundfont support. why can't someone manage that concept?

M-audio Audiophile 192

M-audio Audiophile 192 http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Audiophile192-main.html

Hi Scott,
I've only got laptops (remember , I'm only home user).
I have an Audigy nx2 usb soundcard which allows me to load soundfonts without having to use ( midi yoke, live synth pro , asio4all & forte.) I can load up to a 140mb soundfont on my 512mb laptop.
Using forte, livesynth pro etc , I can load a font of round about 250mb's.

My new laptop has some sort of defacto audigy card built in, actually from what I can tell it's still the same sigmatel card as in my other dell, but the software gives it some of the same functions as my audigy nx 2 soundcard including loading soundfonts.

I think there's only a couple of soundfonts with xg drum mapping.
anotherxgsoundfont
Provitamin ( is gm, but as far as I can tell, the drums are mapped to xg).

They won't play your midi files back perfectly, as is, but with a bit of editing to the soundfonts ( rather than to the midifiles), you'll have something that could potentially last you for years. You just save them to disk & load them back in to your next computer.

I don't appear to have any latency with audigy, which was an issue with the Yamaha xg softsynth I used to use.

Until such time as Yammie bring out a good option, I'm staying with the soundfonts, the flexibility of the system is amazing.
There's a lot of freebies around & some good commercial ones.

Recently I've managed to find
Korg M1 Soundfount
Triton Orchestral Soundfont
Matrix 6 Soundfonts etc

best wishes
Rikki

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Scottyee:
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